4.11 /// Vimes' Theory and false economy...

Caught in a downpour in Chippenham with only a flimsy umbrella at hand, I learned the hard way that skimping on essentials can come at a greater cost. It's Stephen here, bringing you another episode of Infinite Prattle, where I reveal spending habits to unravel the hidden costs of cheap purchases. Journey with me as I share anecdotes and insights on why investing in quality may just be the key to weathering the storms of a financial crunch.

The allure of low prices is tempting, especially when budgets are tight, but as we explore in this episode, the true cost of cheap can be deceptively high. We take a page from Terry Pratchett's book, pondering the socioeconomic quirks that often lead those with less to pay more over time. From the durability of New Rock boots to the superior sound of Bose headphones, we assess the value of quality over cost and question the current consumer culture's push for instant gratification. It's a dance of decisions that each of us performs, and I'm here to share the rhythm of my own steps in this intricate tango.

As the conversation turns to the community, I invite you to weigh in with your experiences on making smarter consumer choices. Have you found that paying a little more up front saves you in the long run? It's your feedback that enriches our dialogue, so don't hesitate to join in the comments below. And if you've found a nugget of wisdom or two in this episode, share the love by liking and subscribing. Stay tuned to Infinite Brattle for more discussions that challenge the status quo and guide us through the maze of everyday decision-making.

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Chapters

• 0:00 The Cost of Buying Cheap
• 6:17 The Value of Quality vs. Cost
• 15:27 Value vs. Cost in Consumer Choices
• 21:44 Feedback and Call to Action

Transcript

Stephen: 0:00

Hello and welcome to Infinite Prattle. How are you today? I hope you're very well. Today, on Infinite Prattle, we're going to talk about something that's probably quite relevant right now, with the cost of living crisis and things going up in price and everyone kind of scrimping and saving. So, yeah, stick with me and all will be revealed very soon. Very soon, you're listening to Infinite Brattle With your host, stephen. Thanks for joining me, for unscripted, unedited everything. Thank you very much for joining me today. Today's episode is. Well. Before I actually tell you today's episode, I'm going to tell you a story about where the idea for today's episode kind of came from.

Stephen: 0:53

I was travelling for work on Tuesday and I decided to. I was going down to Chippenham, which is a place in the southwest of Britain it's not like down in devon or anything like that. I can't remember what county it's in. To be honest, with you off the top of my brain, um, no, I couldn't even tell you. Uh, I feel, I feel ashamed of my geographical lack of knowledge there. Um, but yeah, I was.

Stephen: 1:20

I was on the train and and I realized that I had not taken my umbrella with me Because I decided not to take a coat. The weather has been quite temperate at the moment for the time of year Well, it's probably about right for the time of year, to be honest but it's been quite wet, quite rainy, and I decided not to take a raincoat but to take a hooded zip jumper instead, if I was cold, and just take an umbrella. And I realised while travelling on the train I had forgotten my umbrella and I was cold and just take an umbrella. And I realized while traveling on the train I'd forgotten my umbrella. And I was a bit annoyed because I thought you know what God's laws they say it's probably going to rain. And guess what it did when I? It was quite nice weather most of the way down, maybe a little bit cloudy, but as soon as I arrived in Chippenham, um, it absolutely poured down and I was, um, let's say, quite annoyed. So I, I um, got off the train.

Stephen: 2:09

I stood near the car park for a while and I even asked someone that was local if I could get out. I could see the hotel I was staying at from, from the, from the exit to the, to the of the of the train station, and I asked him, like, if I go to the end of the car park here. Can I get to the hotel there? Is there a cut through? Because google maps was basically saying to leave in the opposite direction and walk around, uh, which wouldn't have been too much further, but as it was raining quite hard, you know guy didn't know and he said there used to be a gap in the fence, but they've built some more stuff, so I don't know. So I was like you know what, I'm gonna risk it. I checked google maps and there was a gap in the fence, although I don't know how updated that was, so long short of it. I walked to the end of the fence and it had no, had no gap of it. So I ended up doing double the journey.

Stephen: 2:56

Really, I had to walk all the way back through the car park and there was a little row of like shops, industrial, you know, like a little retail park as we call them in britain um, a little shopping outlet, um, one of them was b&m, which is like a store in the uk which does a little bit of variety of everything known for like kind of cheap and cheerful products. Uh, I thought you know what? I'll buy an umbrella in there to walk the last 200 yards to the hotel. So I don't get completely drenched. So I did, and it cost £5, which I don't know. It was probably like $8, $8 or $9. So, yeah, £5 for an umbrella, and I used it to walk the rest of the way to the hotel, which I was glad about, because it actually got heavier so I got really wet. Yeah, so, brilliant.

Stephen: 3:43

The next morning put the umbrella with me, uh, went inside a little coffee shop. Uh, greg's, for the for those who know greg's is in this country wasn't really a coffee shop, I suppose. Well, I had a coffee inside there, because coffee in the hotel was terrible and the stay in the hotel was actually quite nice, quite cheap. Um, and the longer I sat drinking coffee, the darker the sky gone. I thought, you know, this is typical.

Stephen: 4:06

The day started out so sunny and nice, and now it's going to have absolutely pissed out on me, but it's okay, it's okay. I bought an umbrella for £5, so I only had like about a 10-15 minute walk up the road to the site that I was going to, which was, I'll tell you, I was going to visit the Siemens factory, to uh talk about my job, basically about something I'm working on, and, um, I got pretty much like two-thirds of the way there and it was a little bit blustery, not like majorly windy, um, but the umbrella completely turned inside out and just collapsed and I ended up once you got into the site. It's quite a big site. So to walk to the reception I had to sign in probably took me about five minutes anyway. So I ended up being in the rain for about ten minutes anyway. So I was probably just as wet as I had have been without a bloody umbrella.

Stephen: 5:02

So that £5 umbrella lasted probably 10 minutes of use and I didn't get a receipt and, to be honest, I couldn't be arsed taking it back. So you know, they kind of got £5 out of me there. That you know, maybe they shouldn't have and I probably should have really taken it back. I probably should have got taken it back. I probably should have got a receipt really, to be honest, um, but that's what it brings me to, that's what that whole subject, um, five minutes to get to the point.

Stephen: 5:33

Uh, you know I'm like, but there was a reason for that and it's, and the reason was was, is buying cheap like a false economy? Because, like that umbrella for me was a false economy. I paid five pound for it. You know, to be fair, there wasn't any other shops around that I could have walked to and not got wet. But should I have looked around the shop and bought a more expensive umbrella? If they sold one, would that have made the difference between that thing folded in half at the first sign of a gust of wind? Um no, was it worth the money? Because just in the rain, the first time I used it, it did its job. It did its job, but, structural integrity wise, it was a piece of shit. I can't really say anything else.

Stephen: 6:17

And it just got me to thinking, like you know that there's, there's a, there's a thing in the world, isn't it? Like you know, if you can save up from something and you can spend that little bit of extra money on something, is that worthwhile? You know is. Is that something that you know is worth doing? And I mean, it's not even. It's not always an option though, is it? It's not always an option, like, like we say that it's like, well, you know, if you buy, if you buy expensive, it'll last your lifetime, and I think, with some things that could be the case, or last year, a very long time.

Stephen: 6:47

And another thing that triggered this whole topic was I've never read any terry pratchett books, but I was looking on um, I think it was linkedin um, and someone put a quote up, uh, and it's apparently from um, a terry pratchett play I believe I've got up on the internet in front of me so it's not from my memory, um, and it's about the theory of social economic unfairness, and the character in this play, um, was captain samuel vimes. It's his boots theory and basically what it what it is. I'll just read you the quote. So, um, the reason the rich were so rich, vimes reason, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned 38 a month plus allowances.

Stephen: 7:37

A really good pair of leather boots cost 50, but an affordable pair of boots which was sort of okay for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the car when when it leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out it cost about $10. So those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought and wore until the soles were so thin he could tell where it where, where he was on anchor moor pork on a foggy night by the field of the cobbles. My mouth isn't working today, but the thing was like good boots lasted for years and years. Man, he could afford 50 dollars a pair of boots that would still keep his feet dry 10 years time, while the poor man had to, could only afford the cheap boots and spend a hundred dollars in the same amount of time and would still have wet feet. Um, so that was his like theory, which is kind of, which is kind of right really.

Stephen: 8:32

So you so what? Basically what it is, if you can afford the good boots, it's a higher outgoing at first, but then you don't have to worry about it. Then boots will last you like 10, 12 years. If you can only afford the cheap ones because of your circumstance, you're always going to be buying into that product and that kind of commercial shitness. Really, that's all I can say. So, um, you're paying for the good product, but if you can't afford it, then it kind of forces you to pay for the crap one. So they've kind of got you in kind of like a weird vicious circle and that and that. That is the thing that happens, isn't it? You know, you can, I think. I think nowadays, with with industry and technology is moving on, I think you can get reasonable price things nowadays that do last and are probably, I would say, worth the money, but then it also makes things very disposable at the same time.

Stephen: 9:23

So, like, I've got like multiple pairs of earphones, like because I do, I don't know why I just buy some. I use them all. If I'm honest with you, like I, I vary the usage. I I I'm very much a person that I'll use them very specifically. So today I've got my tascam headphones on. That's the ones I use for podcasting. They've just fell off my desk, but I've got school candy turtle ones and I use them when I'm just chilling around the house or maybe at work, and they're bluetooth ones. I've got a cheap pair of good ones ones I use sometimes in the garden. I've got my airpods that I use generally around everywhere else because they've got good noise cancelling. I've got wired ones as well, various different, different versions of them, some for playing with drums, some for, like, listening to high-end audio. So they all vary vastly in price and vastly kind of in probably, build quality, but they've all lasted the same amount of time. So that kind of says something, but it says something from how do I look after things?

Stephen: 10:21

I do like to put things in cases and, you know, put things away. Probably although you wouldn't think that if you looked in my room right now um, but yeah, I think I think that there are products out there now that you know you can buy cheaper and will last a little bit longer than maybe years ago. Or you're still paying for cheapness and you know build quality might be nominantly there. You might get the quality initially and then you know the longevity isn't there still, and it's kind of an interesting theory that you know, should we? And I think it's kind of like an interesting thought that should we really take the time just to save up things? Like we're very much a now society, I think.

Stephen: 10:58

Now, like you know, with streaming services and you know everything's in your face and you have to have instantly and and I think people are like that about you know purchasing things like I'm. I mean, I remember as a kid, you know, and you had to save up for things and it was very, um, annoying and, you know, very frustrating. But I always feel like when I was a kid, I always was saving up for the good thing. I wasn't like I was very specific. Maybe that was, maybe that was brought on, the fact that choice was a bit less.

Stephen: 11:29

Now you've got these online shops like teamu and what's the other one out, was it aliexpress and um sheehan? And they're all doing these products, all all made in china from different sellers, and you look at it sometimes you think that's, that price is too good to be true. You know you'll. You like you'll get like um, I'm trying to think of something you know like, look at you, look on amazon and you'll see maybe a suitcase and it'll be like 50 quid and you look like one that looks exactly the same. It's like 8.99. You know what that's and you've probably got a pair of. You could postage, but you think you know I'll take a risk on that. And then you risk it and it turns up and it's the build quality shite and you're probably gonna get one use out of it. So you've you've paid for something that is like less than a fifth of the cost, but you can. You have to pay for whatever time you, every time you use it, and that's kind of what this like uh, vims or vimes theory is talking about from from Terry Pratchett is very much like that one use and done kind of thing. Um, and that repeated outgoing of of the same item.

Stephen: 12:32

Um, I mean, I've bought some shit, for example headphones. In my time, like you know, when you I've been out and about, I've forgotten my headphones. I've literally gone into the pound shop and bought a pair of headphones and the sound quality's been atrocious and they've broke after several usage. But in in the sense of like, I'm not overly bothered in. Sometimes I think, well, I've got more at home and it I very much. I like music and if I can't, it doesn't help me focus and stuff sometimes, so I need that in my ears. So for a quid, it's worth the sacrifice.

Stephen: 13:00

Very wasteful, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's not like a waste, like that product's been built very cheaply to be thrown away after a couple of uses, which is which is terrible really. Um, but that's just, that's just society, isn't that? That's just what that's the position we're into, and they can't raise the prices of things like that because from that kind of quotation I read before, the everyman kind of thing wouldn't be able to afford anything. Yeah, I just think it's really interesting.

Stephen: 13:32

It happens with food as well, isn't it? Food's a very thing as well. I watched Good Mythical Morning, which is a YouTube channel going years, not a sponsor as they like to say. I don't know where I get it from on this show and I've said it previously, but they, they test out. They do like, um, certain episodes where they test things so like cheap food versus they taste cheap food, or varying degrees of cheap food, uh, to expensive food. So they'll, they'll have, like they'll try like tacos or something, or like burgers or chicken like fried chicken, and it'll be like one of them. Or like burgers or chicken like fried chicken, and it'll be like one of them, like my frozen aisle in a supermarket, one of them be from a fast-food restaurant, one of them be from, like you know, restaurant II kind of place, another one would be like a fine dining establish establishment and they try them to see which one they think tastes nicest and it varies quite a lot, like sometimes like the cheaper one tastes nicer and sometimes like the more expensive one.

Stephen: 14:24

But then it's like, well, is that worth the extra taste? Like, is that worth paying? Is it worth paying 40 for a pasta dish when that one from that place is, yeah, not as tasty, but it's like five dollars, um, and again, it's all down to personal circumstance, isn't it like your own income and probably upbringing plays a big part in what you're willing to actually pay out. I'm quite lucky that I've always I've always had a job and I've I've always like kind of managed my money that I don't scrimp on certain things but I will on others. So I kind of like kind of economize, like on items that I feel that there's no benefit to paying extra money for, like like a tin of beans, for example. That's actually probably a bad example actually, because they seem to be reasonably filling them up even more, so the excess weight with just the liquid. So like, say, like a lettuce, like, say a lettuce, that's probably a good example.

Stephen: 15:27

You get a lettuce in the supermarket. You wear these different, different lettuces and especially in the UK, we we have like different brands, but we also have like home brands, like you know value brands. I'm sure this is a thing around the world. And then we have like organic and you know grown, grown in a, you know grown in a sterile condition using no, you know no um chemicals and all that and organic stuff and and things that have been specially treated or or even just sometimes branded lettuce, and it's like more expensive than the cheapest lettuce they have and I have no idea what these taste different for me, lettuce is lettuce and I always go and learn like the value by weight is a gauge to things. I do that all the time.

Stephen: 16:18

Chocolate, everything, and I, I, I, but stuff like lettuce, I I'm like cheapest thing. Tomatoes, she was food, stuff like that. It's always the cheapest thing, um, and there's not much in the supermarket. I would like to be especially thinking I need to buy the dearer version of that. There's only a few things, maybe, like olive oil, for example. Certain certain olive oils do taste nicer um, but I still also wouldn't pay like 20 quid for a bottle of olive oil. That's ridiculous. Um, which I have seen in the supermarket, like 25 pound for a bottle of olive oil, which is insane. Oh, who's? Who's buying that? People with a lot more money than me, let's face it. Um, yeah, I think that's. You know, it's an interesting choice and how we make them choices and, like I, I was talking the other day on um um at work to someone about, like you know, headphones and stuff and I I recently had, and unfortunately recently broken um pair of bose, quiet comfort 3s.

Stephen: 17:21

Now I think Bose are actually in QuietComfort like 18, I don't know the, I don't know what, what number they're on. Mine were from like 2004. It was one of the very first things I bought when I moved into a house on my own little treat to myself, and they were like 350 pound headphones. Like most people think, oh my god, 350 pound headphones like that's insane. But they broke this year like they. They literally broke this year and they were like the best headphones I've ever had. Like sound quality was amazing and they were so, so comfortable. Um, and I used them so much like especially when I lived in, lived in my other house, like I had them on my head all the time I was playing guitar, when I was on the computer, when I was out and about.

Stephen: 18:05

So, if you think about it, I think they were 329 actually. So I'm lying to you a little bit. If you think about it, over over, like you know, over, like that, what yeah, it's 20 years, isn't it? That's like what? Like 15 quid a year or something worse, out to just over. So that's not that bad, I don't think. I think that's a good return on them headphones Because I never had to do anything to them, like I never had to like replace a cable, nothing. And that for me, I think that's a good return.

Stephen: 18:36

And I think I've mentioned it another time as well on my podcast about the, uh, the new rock boots that I bought, um, which were, which were like 200 and something pound, and at the time my dad was like you're, you're, you're mental, why are you paying that much for a pair of boots? And kind of go, that's a kind of good example with this. You know this vimes theory that terry pratchett wrote about in his play. Um, I should read some terry pratchett, but apparently he's meant to be very good. Uh, let me know if he is.

Stephen: 19:02

Um, anyway, uh, yeah, so I bought these boots and, like I didn't have to buy them boots I could have just bought a pair of army boots for like 30, 40 quid I chose to buy these ones that were like I can't remember, like 240 pounds and again, I didn't have many like responsibilities, I was living at home with a job and you know, paying my way, but everything, everything, every excess ounce of money was my own to do what I wanted with. And, um, I bought them boots but they lasted so long and they were so comfortable and I probably they probably even better return than the headphones, because I literally with they were literally the only things I wore the majority of the time on my feet, like I wore them everywhere to everything. Um, I had a couple of the pairs of trainers and stuff, but literally the new rock boots were the things that things to wear all the time, and I had them probably like 15 or 16 years. Um, yeah, and for me they they were well worth the money. But it is interesting because I never then bought another pair, and the most recent pair of boots that I bought, which were not no, actually not the most reasons, I've just bought some doc martins, um, and they were 180 pounds, so I'm hoping they're gonna last a long time. I always hear people say they last a long time and I finally finally done it.

Stephen: 20:17

I finally bought a good pair of boots again, but the previous pair were a Harley-Davidson pair and again they were quite expensive, but they didn't last as long. I kind of was wearing them longer than I probably should have been because they'd gone very loose and basically weren't that good. They loosened up so much and they didn't really tighten up and the shoelaces had gone to shit and I probably had them about five years, uh, before I. Well, I've certainly still got them, but they're gonna be like garage messing around in boots now. But those zips broke on them.

Stephen: 20:51

Um, nowhere near as good a return as the, as the new rocks not bad, though not bad. But they I bought them on offer, so we're not best thing they published. I think they should have been like double the price I paid about £100 for them and they should have been like £250. So I think I'd have been annoyed if I had paid £250 for them and they lasted 5 years.

Stephen: 21:11

Yeah, I don't feel that's a good return. Yeah, I'm going to leave it there because it's such a big topic and if I come with some, like some sort of measured theory or measured ideas at some point, I may revisit this. But you know what? What do you consider good value? What? What is that? What is that trigger point where you think you know I'll pay more money for it? Do you pay more money for stuff? Or are you not bothered about, like, replacing a backpack every year because it breaks and you don't want to spend 50 quid on a backpack, but you're quite happy to spend a tenner on one every year?

Stephen: 21:44

Like what? What is that is that good for you, because you like the change or I don't know. Let me know. Let me know down in the comments. Um, and thank you very much for listening. Please like, share, subscribe if you feel that way inclined. Uh, share with your friends if you, if you've enjoyed today's episode and uh, yes, I'll speak to you again soon. Thank you, thanks for listening to Infinite Brattle with your host, stephen. Follow me on social networks at Infinite Brattle and don't forget to subscribe. Thanks very much.