6.06 /// A male perspective on IVF, Heartbreak & Renewed Hope...

The room went quiet before anyone spoke, and that silence said everything. After nearly eight years of IVF—postcode lotteries, NHS backlogs, COVID cancellations, and a thousand tiny appointments—our long‑awaited positive test gave way to a 12‑week scan without a heartbeat. I talk through the whole arc: the science and scheduling that govern every dose and scan, the tender shock of seeing a flicker at eight weeks, and the brutal task of phoning parents who were waiting for photos. Along the way I open up about the odd invisibility of the non‑carrying partner, how it feels to be the chauffeur and signature while someone you love carries the injections and the hope, and why “It’ll happen” often hurts more than it helps.

I also find a thread of light. This protocol worked in a way none had before; Sarah was pregnant, and bodies sometimes remember. That matters as we plan our next transfer, shaped around a long‑booked Caribbean cruise and Zika rules that force careful timing. I share what we learned about telling people early, managing expectations when clinics speak in millimetres and days, and setting boundaries when curiosity outpaces care. Most of all, I explore what real support sounds like: asking permission to talk about it, offering child care without hesitation, and choosing “I’m here” over easy fixes.

If you’re navigating infertility, miscarriage, or the long administrative shadow of treatment, you’re not alone. Our story won’t hand you platitudes; it offers a clear picture of grief that coexists with practical hope, and a path forward that values small joys, honest language, and patience with yourself. If this resonates, follow the show, share this with someone who needs comfort on a hard day, and leave a review so others can find it too.

Links

miscarriage association

nhs

samaritans

mind uk

Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!
Start for FREE

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Chapters

• 0:00 A Different, Trigger-Warned Opening
• 2:55 Why IVF And How It Started
• 6:30 NHS Funding, Delays, And COVID Stops
• 10:25 Getting Older And Wanting Fatherhood
• 13:55 Feeling Side-Lined As The Partner
• 16:40 The First Positive Test And Cautious Joy
• 20:40 Early Scans, Measurements, And Anxiety
• 24:30 Telling Family Before Twelve Weeks
• 27:20 The 12-Week Scan And No Heartbeat
• 31:10 Breaking The News And Grief
• 35:00 Finding Silver Linings And Next Steps
• 38:00 How To Support Friends Through IVF
• 40:30 Closing Thoughts And Kindness

Transcript

Stephen: 0:16

Hello, welcome to Infinite Prattle. A little bit of a different intro today. Not doing my usual um music and um break and whimsical intro and confused intro to be honest, let's let's face it. Um because today is a little bit of a different topic for me, something a little bit more serious. Um something I've mentioned um about doing uh at the beginning of this new season, um and I've got some notes uh and I'm not gonna do one camera on this episode today because I want to fully engage with with this with this camera um and it's a sensitive subject, so there's a little bit of a trigger warning uh for people um you may have gone through a similar thing. So if you've experienced IVF or um uh failed pregnancy and stuff, just you know just be warned. I'm gonna be talking about stuff like that um today. Um yeah, so I think probably most people that know me personally, and probably if you're a regular listener to the podcast, you've probably heard me talking about the IVF journey that me and my wife are on. Um I didn't really like calling it the IVF journey when we first started because I think that sounds weird. Um certain things really irk me and that that was one of them, but I don't mind saying it now because it has been a journey. I think I underestimated um just how emotional it is, um, how tiring it is and frustration. Um and I may get upset during this this podcast. I can feel myself welling up a little bit just just with the thought of it. Um because it's it's an emotive subject, and we've been through something recently that many people probably experience, well do ex do experience, let's face it. It's uh pregnancy isn't uh and and trying to get a baby and have a baby and IVF isn't only exclusive to us as a couple, but um when you go through that it does seem very like that, very um intimate. And uh you don't know how things are gonna affect you until you go through them sometimes. I think this is definitely one of them times where I thought I was okay and probably really wasn't, um and and still I'm not now. Um but we'll go back to the beginning. I think I've done an episode about IVF before on the podcast. I didn't check before I started filming because I just wanted to get into it. The feeling took me to do this episode today. Um I've had a really nice day, and I think that joy has spurred me on to um record this sad episode. Um I'm gonna try and find the positives in negatives. That's the sort of person I try to be. Even though I can be a moanie bastard, I do like to see the positives in things and in people. Um but we've had a nice day today. It's New Year's Eve today, so happy New Year. This won't be going out, this will be going out in the New Year anyway, so um I'm not sure when, whether I'll post it straight away or whether I'll wait and put a couple more podcast episodes before it. You'll know because you're listening to it, and you'll know when it's released. But I am recording this New Year's Eve. Um I'm still off work and I thought it was a nice, nice day to do it. We went out this morning and went to a little cafe in in nearby town of Nantwich, and then we brought a uh sweet treat home with us and had a brew, and um I thought I'd I'd come and record this um and record a couple of episodes and have a lot on a vlog and stuff. Um make make make the most of my time off to be creative. Um yeah, IVF. Um I won't dwell on the complications of why we're going into IVF. Sarah has cystic fibrosis. Um I don't. Um everything seems biologically okay with myself. Things kind of seem okay with Sarah. Um, but when we started IVF, there was no tests run on Sarah. I think the assumption was just you've got cystic fibrosis that can cause some infertility and some issues conceiving, so I think the assumption was that's what it is. Uh so we kind of went full steam ahead into the IVF programme. Um, and it's a long road. I mean, we have the NHS in the UK, uh, like a free healthcare service, and we're lucky that IVF is kind of not means tested, but it's it's by devolution, different areas can choose what level of IVF you receive. Like some places you don't get any funding for IVF, and some places you do. So we're quite lucky because in our area we get one round of IVF for free, um, which essentially means that once you've done the egg collection and you've got your embryos, however many embryos you get, that's your round. So we were very, very lucky we got 12 viable embryos. So that basically means we have 12 chances of becoming pregnant, so we get 12 implantations, uh essentially, and that's our one go. Unfortunately, some places don't get any chance, then it's fully privately funded yourself. You have to bolster up the cash yourself to do them. Uh, and in this country as well, I think I believe if you if you go through the egg retrieval process, etc., and nothing is viable, that should go over. So you might not even get to the implantation stage. So, first off, we're very grateful and we're very lucky that you know we've we've got the opportunity to to you know go through the process. Um on the flip side of that the NHS is is pretty overstretched. Um as it's free, they're running on a shoestring, even though I think like most um contracted out uh industries, I think they probably uh overspend when they don't need to, but that's a different that's a different topic. Uh and it's just taken so long to get to where we are. Um and that's probably the the biggest upset for me in the the whole process. It's been nearly eight years since we started the the the the process of of IVF. Um seven and a half years or so, I think it is now. And it's just it's been ups and downs, and we've only had four transfers in that time. Um COVID played a part, it was a big, big issue. Sarah's health, planning, doctors' appointments, it it just takes so long, and time is fleeting. Um and I never wanted to be an older parent. I I had this kind of like rose-tinted vision of when I was a teenager that you know I was very much of a if I meet the right girl, I would get married at 18 and start a family. Like that's that was my view, and uh like I would quite have happily settled down um with my first love, which would probably the the incorrect thing to do to be honest, because like as as a youngster you don't really understand, you haven't really got the world experience, and I I I am a bit of a romantic and I probably would have just been like, ah yes, this is it. Um in hindsight, uh that would have been wrong, and and Sarah is my absolute soulmate, and um it's just typical that you know we're in this situation, you know. Um so we started our IVF journey, and it took quite a while to get to the point of actually trying to have a transfer. We were scheduled for our first transfer literally a couple of days before lockdown hit in the UK, and I think we were meant to be going to the hospital on the Thursday to have the transfer, and they phoned us like on the Tuesday or the Wednesday to say it was all cancelled and all shut down, and they had no idea when it was going to start up again. Um and there's there's there's kind of like a there's two ways of looking at that. Like, I think part of me I was like kind of like devastated that we didn't get that chance to do that that transfer because it would have been you know, at least we'd have got one step done, and then when lockdown was over, we could have like been on a like a run like on a level of where we were like you know we we know where we're up to kind of thing now. We can we can just go to the next step, but we never got that point, and then it took a long time to get an appointment fixed, admin issues as well as played a problem. But I won't try not to be tangent about that on on this podcast. Um it kind of harps back to what I was saying in previous episodes that you know customer service has kind of taken a nosedive and sometimes empathy is lacking. Let's say that I'll I'll leave it at that. Um and it's just the time scales, like it just time just slips away. And I'm 42 now, and I still want to be a dad. It's it's something I've wanted since I was really young. Again, I think I've mentioned it before. So even when I was a toddler, my my dream was to have kids and you know have a nice life and have a nice wife. And again, I'm very I'm a bit of a dreamer. Um rose titty glasses again, I suppose. I've always wanted that, and it's hard when your friends and stuff say, yo, you'd be an excellent dad and like it'll happen for you. And they're words of comfort, but they're also words that hit hard emotionally because after eight years it's it's getting to the point of will will it ever happen? Um so yeah, I said I would cry, and I am. Um and I'm hoping it will, I'm hoping it will. To do so. Um and this is only my side of it. Like what Sarah goes through as a prospective mother, I think, is like a million times worse. I'm not saying that my feelings don't matter. I'm getting snuffly, sorry. Um but she has our own illness to deal with, and she also has been taking so much medication every time we go to do a transfer to get herself ready for it. Um anyone that's been through the IRF process knows this, like you have to get your lining thick and and all this sort of stuff, and it's it's a process in itself, and she's been doing injections and tablets and pessaries and god knows what else. I won't go into the details, but really personal places you put these things. And um I am like a spare part, I don't know what to do apart from just be there for her, and it and that that's hard as well. Well, I'd like to say not too quickly, but you know what I mean. Uh and and during the IVF, you know, it's it's a sperm donation and uh off the lab it goes. And my process there is is is I'm a taxi driver, really, an emotional support person. Uh I don't hide, don't play a part. Like I go to the appointments and confirm my date of birth. Sarah's the centre of attention, and and I get a bit lost with all the stuff that she has to keep up with, and probably a lack of interest in some sense because I don't feel part of the process half the time, and that's not her fault, it's not the hospital's fault, really, it's just how it is. Like she's the person that's going to carry the baby. Um and I never knew how much of a whirlwind this this journey would be. This this this IVF. I kind of was a bit naive, I think, because I thought, you know, um, you know, they combine our sperm and egg and and make it embryo, and if it's viable, you know, they whack one up and do it a couple of times, and eventually we'll just get pregnant and never happy ever after, kind of thing, and it'll be quick because it, you know, it's this simple process, and um I didn't understand like the delicate balance of drugs and hormones and um and I probably just didn't think about it because I'm not stupid, I just don't think I thought about it that deeply. I was like, you know, this is something they do all the time and it'll just happen. I never really thought about the what if it doesn't happen, what if there's complications, how long it will take. I never expected it to be nearly eight years later and really not be too far along. Um Yeah, well I'll say we're not too far along. I'll get to the point of the actual video. I've made some notes and I haven't really looked at them, so um But yeah, we We did have some good news this year. For a short time at least, anyway. Um The last round of IBF that we had was actually successful and she and she got pregnant. Um which it seems a bit like a dream to me. When she showed me the pregnancy test, I did not react how a person receiving that new should react. It was kind of dead to me, to be honest. It was the the process of IVF has really beaten me down and I can't really get excited about it. I think when you're going through things naturally, if you were just trying for a baby naturally, like like we were before IVF, um you try and you try and try, and then if you think you might be pregnant and you do a test, then it's like oh great, we're pregnant, blah blah. There's it's a different process there, it's just it just happens, doesn't it? Um whereas it's so programmed when you do IVF, it's like come to this appointment, we scan you, right? Here's what you need to do before the next appointment, blah blah blah. Take these medicines, do these things, here's the program you're following. Do we need to adjust it? No, we don't. Uh right, now you need to come on this day. And it's it's all ad hoc, like you can't, even though it's planned appointments, but they're not really planned, it depends on what your body's doing. So working around work's been difficult as well, you know, we're fitting them in. Um and it's all planned, it's it's it's all planned. Uh it's really difficult to keep that a secret from people because they know you're doing IVF and they know we have appointments, and then people feel awkward about asking about things. Um, which please don't, if you ever if you know someone that's going through IVF, just have that open conversation with them and say, listen, are we to talk about it? Are we not? Um I think me and Sarah have gotten pretty good at like kind of avoiding the questions if we're going through a transfer. Uh we normally don't tell people that we're doing it. Because again, if it was successful, they we then have to lie to say that it wasn't successful, which we had to do this time. Um, which was a new experience. Oh, excuse my sniffling. Um it was don't get me wrong, it was it was joyous that you know we'd been pregnant, but I I didn't react in the way I should have, and I didn't react in the way I thought I would. Um I I was wanting to scream and shout and jump up and down and and tell people, um, but there was part of me that was like, you know, this is great news, however, you know, we have to have another scan, we have to do this, and there's the programme you've got to stick to. And in the back of my brain, I didn't want to let myself get excited. Um, because the longer it goes on, the more rests on it, and that induces more stress and more anxiety about the whole process. And I think I was just in protection mode, I suppose, really. Like, don't let yourself get hopeful, don't let yourself get too excited about it. And I actually said to Sarah said, I don't think I'll actually believe it until someone puts a baby in my arms and says, This is your baby. Um I still think I'd be the same now, to be honest. I like um so yeah, we we we got pregnant. Uh Sarah was pregnant, and after a couple of days I settled down a bit and I allowed myself to kind of relax a little bit but not still get too excited, because heaven forbid. And then after a couple weeks, Sarah had a little bit of spotting, so we went to the early I think it was maybe after yeah, it was after a couple of weeks. Because you meant to have a scan at the IVF. I'm terrible with like timelines there, so I apologise. Sarah would be able to tell me better. Uh, we had a bit of spotting, she had a bit of spotting, so we went up to the the early uh baby care unit at our local hospital. They did a scan, they said the the fetus was slightly smaller than it should have been, because obviously we knew exactly when it was meant to have been conceived, etc. When the implant date was the fetus was well, the embryo was like five days old, etc. So anyone that's been through this knows that kind of thing. Like when they freeze the embryo, it's a few days old, five days old, and then what they do is they get your body ready, or they get the lady's body ready for when it's meant to be implanted, so they get the body ready for five a five-day old embryo. It's super clever how they do it. It's it's it is a marvelous science. I don't know how anyone gets pregnant though, because on our first IVF appointment, the woman was telling us, like, what are the odds of getting pregnant naturally versus IVF, and the IVF odds are still quite phenomenal, like uh like slim chance. I don't even know how anyone gets pregnant naturally at all. It is a marvel when you when you when you hear this the figures. Um and they they basic said they they thought the baby's growth was up to a week behind where it should have been at that point, and they were the they weren't overly caring, if I'm honest with you. They kind of were like we we I wanted to ask some questions, but Sarah's quite stoic and quite quiet, and I didn't want to ask anything that might trigger her. And as she wasn't asking any questions, I didn't want to. Uh, she said afterwards that was ridiculous, but I was in protection mode of her. But the woman was quite she didn't say if like that was a bad thing or if it's should we be worried? So we had a that was I think that was on a Thursday or the Friday, and we had the IVF scan on the Monday, and we went to that and they scanned the baby, and they were like, Yeah, it's a bit behind what we were we thought, but they didn't seem as concerned. They said just go back to the early care unit like the week later uh and see what their second scan shows. And when we went back, they were kind of satisfied because they said the f the fetus had like been growing, they'd seen a heartbeat as well, which is amazing at that early time. Um it's still the beginnings of like the flutter kind of thing. It's not like I don't think it's like a true heartbeat at that point. Um again, I don't know the terminology, I probably should really, having been in the process so long. Uh and they they seemed quite chill about it. They were like, Yeah, it's a little bit behind where we expected, but it's grown at the appropriate rate, like what we'd expect. So maybe baby's just a little bit behind. Uh so we kind of breathed a little bit of a sigh of relief. And Sarah Bee and Sarah being curious, she wanted to see the how it was developing. So she booked like an eight-week scan, a private scanning place. And that was amazing because we actually saw it a little bit bigger, and it had arms and legs at this point. And we've got the we've got the picture of it. And it had a heartbeat and it was moving. And so I was I was blown away because again, it's it's literally like this this big. It's like a tiny little thing inside of it. I think it was the size of a peanut or something at that point, and it's pretty much a semi-formed baby. Obviously, still looks a bit more like an embryo than a baby, but it it was moving, and I didn't even know they could move at that size. And yeah, it was it was a bit mind-blowing. And I think that relaxed me a little bit, having seen that scan, thinking, oh well, you know, they even said, like, you know, it's still a bit behind from your actual in you know implantation date, but it's still growing at the same rate it should be doing. Uh so kind of we kind of felt a bit at ease at that. Um yeah, it was it was it was interesting. We had to tell the parents actually. So I'll go back a step. By this point, the parents knew because when we had to go to the early early care unit and stuff, we had to have an extra meeting at the hospital and and such things. We I think my we my dad was looking after the dog, he was looking after Bert, and we'd had quite a lot of appointments, not just for Sarah's illness, but for like the IVF and general appointments, and we we basically had to tell them that she was pregnant because I think my dad was concerned that she was dying or something, or there was something wrong with her. So we kind of had to tell we had to tell my dad and say, listen, nothing's wrong when we got back from when we got back from the scan. I think it was uh the IVF scan, I think it was. I can't remember, it's all a bit of a blur when we got back from one of the appointments anyway. Um in fact, I think it was the one at Liverpool. We had to go and have like a midwifery appointment. Um we told my dad and my stepmum uh and then we decided that we couldn't tell him to to obviously ease his mind without telling her mum and my mum and the brothers. Um, and we also picked one friend to tea tell as well. Um well her friend kind of already knew because she'd been going through the same thing and she had 60 fibrosis as well, so yeah. So that that was kind of nice to share that news with someone, but it also felt I don't know, it was kind of like it'd have been nice if we could just wait until the 12 weeks or at a more appropriate date when we kind of maybe had more of a a comfort comfortable feeling that things were gonna be okay. Um so we told them like quite early on. Uh and my mum was overjoyed. Uh, it was lovely hearing how happy she was, and I know she's like she just wants grandchildren basically. Um, and I wanted to have grandchildren desperately. Um, or just one will do, just one will do, you know. I keep saying this, but one will do. Uh don't want to say plural, yeah, just one will do for me uh currently. Um and then we had the 12-week scan and we we did like midwife appointments and and things like that. Liverpool women's hospital, because of Sarah's illness, that's where she you know she felt comfortable about being treated. That her hospital's over there. Liverpool women's a specialist, they look after people with illnesses or pre-existing conditions or complications, etc. So we felt comfortable, that'd be good. Problem is it's in Liverpool, it's a it's a bit of a drive for us, but you know, you have to take the roof with it smooth, I suppose. And we went over we had the 12-week scan booked in, which I think Sarah was technically about 13 weeks pregnant at this time because the 12-week scan doesn't always match up with your actual dates, it's when they can fit you in. And Sarah said that she had a bad feeling when we were driving across there. And I, in the days leading up to it, kind of let myself relax a bit, and I'd been speaking a bit more openly to my parents about it, saying about yo, we were talking about going over I was talking about going over to see my mum in New Year and saying we should maybe go and look at baby furniture and stuff with her, because I knew how much she'd love that. And uh we got to the scam and uh the baby The baby didn't have a heartbeat You don't realise how things affect you until you talk about them. I'm quite good when I receive information like that. I think it's like just my personality and the jobs I've done as well. Like I I'm quite good at dealing with stuff. Um I knew as soon as the baby had come up on the screen, it didn't look much different than the scanner eight weeks. Um it just looked wrong, it didn't look like it had grown, it looked still. And I'm not an expert, but it was just blatantly obvious to me as soon as I saw, I was just like, yeah, this this isn't gonna be good news. So the nurse was completely quiet as well, and I thought, well that's not a good sign either, because they're trained and they would know straight away if everything was hunky-dory. Sarah would turn away from the screen because she said to me afterwards that she knew straight away as soon as she saw that there was something going on. And uh the nurse basically said, like, unfortunately, I can't find a heartbeat. Um don't think it's made it. Um but she has to get a second opinion, so we got some people in, and they were so caring, they were so so caring, which kind of makes it worse, like when you're trying to be stoic and kind of just cope with it internally, and someone's being so nice to you, you're almost like stop being nice to me because you're gonna make me cry. Uh but they were lovely, um, and then the decision is that that yeah, that someone came in and confirmed it, and they were lovely as well, and uh he he left uh and and was apolog apologetic and showing his empathy and uh sympathy for us, uh, which really nearly got me when he left. Uh from behind he left behind as he left, he just said these nice words, and I was just like, Oh Christ, like what are you doing to me? Um and I chastised myself as well in that moment as well because I was thinking to myself, you've let yourself you've let yourself become excited about this. You've let yourself you've left yourself open to this disappointment, and I I I'm very protective of my own emotions and I always have been hardly, I think, because I get so emotional sometimes that I have to be the stoic person, and I rarely cry in public, even though this is gonna go on the internet. Um and if I do it's because it's it's just something that's so impassioned to me that I just can't keep it in. Um I can't cope with people being kind to me. Um I don't want to say it's because I'm not used to it, I just can't I I'm just always one of them people, and people treat me as one of them people that just gets on with everything. Um so in them times where I do need an arm around a shoulder, I don't always get that when I need it. And that's not me seeking sympathy, that's me just being truthful because it's just the persona I've put out for for all my life. Um and in adulthood as a child usually would seek that out if you need it, and in adulthood I don't, and I wouldn't. Uh even from Sarah, I I would would would would kind of not turn it down but would shy away from from needing that kind of expression of outpouring of sympathy or comfort, and I have to find it in my own way or seek it in my own way. Um yeah, but it was a it was a it was a bad day. So this was through to make a decision about how we wanted the baby, because obviously the baby was still in there. Um and there was some hard conversations that day. Uh we went through, we were waiting for the consultant, and we were expecting back at home at a certain time, and I think everyone was everyone that knew about the pregnancy was expecting this joyous news and maybe a photo of the scan uh to be sent through to them. And that expectation was was hard, and it was very, very hard. Um, and at that moment I was thinking, why do we have to tell anyone? Because if we hadn't told anyone we didn't we wouldn't have to tell them this now, or at least it would be easier to tell them this because they didn't know the happy news in the first place. Um but Sarah's waiting for the consultant, and and I said, Listen, I'm gonna go and tell people because I don't think she could have. So that's where I she she'd already been crying and I hadn't cried at this point, and I'd comforted her a little bit and I said listen, I'm gonna have to go tell people because people will be worried now because they knew when the appointment was and they'll have been expecting us back, and we're gonna be late now because we have to make all these other arrangements now. This was on a Monday, um so I was going to have band practice that night, so I I don't normally do voice notes to people, but I felt that that was the best way for me to do some of the messaging. I phoned my mum, her mum, and my dad directly, and I phoned my mum first, thinking it would be the easiest one to get out of the way. Um, should I say I phoned my dad first, actually, I think it'd be the easiest one to get out of the way because I thought he'd be the easiest person to talk to because he wouldn't get emotional. Um but hearing his voice and hearing him sad and almost breaking a little bit in his speech just did me. It just I was like I'd kind of come off the phone as quick as I could with him, and I was like stood in this little corner of the hospital car park. It was like the building's like shaped weird anymore, but it has like this weird triangular like inlet, really. And I was stood there um out of the wind and rain, and and then I phoned my mum, and then I phoned Sarah's mum. My mum was just was kind of hysterical, really. Um really, really, she was a very emotional person. My mum, she she really did cry. And I couldn't face speaking to anyone else directly, so I did a few voice moments which I wouldn't normally do. So to the band and and my and I felt bad as well because that for the band, especially, it was kind of out of the blue as well. They hadn't I was I was hoping to tell them that night at practice that you know like we were pregnant and have some happy news to spread. Uh, and this day that was meant to be a day of joy and a day of sharing like some fantastically happy news after all this time of trying just turned into the shittiest day. Um I can't really say anything else about that, really, and I've not really cried about it that much. Probably as much as I have on this podcast, really. Every time I get my eyes water a little bit, and then I get kind of get through it. And maybe I should sit down and pop a cry. I'll have to put one of my my my cry films on and sit and cry along with it and let some emotion out that way. That's normally how I would do it. Um listen to some sad songs and cry in the bath. Um Yeah. We had a miscarriage. And that's really sad. And it's really it's really really quite crap. Um I can't imagine how Sarah felt at all. Because I felt like crap. Really, really crap. Um but to know that like she's been doing all this work and all these medications and all the stuff that she's been doing, plus feeling that life, feeling that force inside of her. Um I I can't even imagine what that feels like for a woman. And uh Yeah. There's not much more I can say about that. But on a positive note, we had not been pregnant before. So we're taking it in kind of a we're trying to out of the darkness trying to see the the light and know that like the way we did the drugs this time, or the way she she did the drugs and the plan that the doctor put in place did actually produce the result. Not to the end, but we got pregnant and we've never been pregnant before. So Um that's good, that's good, and that can help the next one. Cause apparently the body responds to having previously been pregnant. So hopefully when we get our next transfer, her body will be like, Oh, I remember this. Let's let's do this again and take it all away this time. Um we booked a cruise, so uh we we booked a cruise when uh yeah like this year, early this year, like in 2025, same film this on New Year's Eve. So we booked it like April time, May time for for for for next year, which is 2026. Um we fell pregnant, we were like we're gonna have to cancel the cruise because obviously she'll be heavily pregnant, we'll have to try and postpone it or cancel it or whatever or whatever. And um, so a silver line as that we won't have to cancel the cruise or move it. The bad sign of that is that we have to then wait till after the cruise now because there's no point starting in the new year, because obviously then if she gets pregnant or anything like that, we won't be able to go on the cruise because it's the whole virus and stuff from the Caribbean because we're going on a Caribbean cruise, which will be lovely. Um, but there's this thing called Zika virus, which you have to be tested for, you're not meant to go when you're pregnant, etc. And you have to sign all these things to say that you're not going to go anywhere with Zika virus and all these other things. Um we started the last IVF, we we actually said yeah, we were, but we cancelled the cruise, so don't worry, we'll we'll go ahead and we'll change our plans if if necessary. But with it being so close, we've decided just to go on the cruise, have a nice holiday, chill out, and then we'll as soon as we come back, as soon as we're able to, we'll we'll just start the next round. Because fundamentally we'll we'll be doing the the same um the same um like um protocols is the word I'm looking for. So we'll be doing the same protocol. So hopefully we'll we'll we'll just do the next one uh and then I will be able to share some good news in 2026, fingers crossed, uh, with everyone. Um yeah. Um we have told other people, so I'm not putting this out there without telling without telling people. There probably are some people we haven't told, so this might be news if they listen to my podcast. Um so and that's not because that we didn't want people to know. We told the people we told that we were pregnant because of the reason I give, then we had to tell them the bad news, and then we we have told some people separately the bad news, but it's a very strange thing because you also you almost don't people don't know you were going through it, and then it's how did you bring that up unless they bring up the IVF? Um it's kind of hard just to like hold open with, How are you? Oh, it's great, but we had a miscarriage, but you didn't know we didn't know we were pregnant, but it's really upset us. Like, where'd you go with that? And it's really difficult, but we we felt guilty for not having told some of our closest friends. Like, um, I I I told my mate Scott pretty much because he'd he'd been visiting and stuff during a lot of the IVF appointments, so I think he had his suspicions, so he was the easiest person to tell. I mean, he's one of my closest friends, I've known him like 25 years, uh, and he's he's like my best pal. So he he was probably the one I was going to tell him because he's the one I probably see the most. But then I felt guilty for my mate Phil, who was such a close friend. And like I'm very lucky because I have quite a few like really, really good, great friends, and my friend Louise and and James. Um really wanted to tell them as well, but I we were trying to keep it close knit so we didn't have if the worst happened, we didn't have all these people to tell. But then weirdly, we felt guilty for not having told them in the first place and then only breaking the bad news to them. Um and I don't think there's a right way or a wrong way to get go about that. I don't think there's a good way or a bad way to kind of impart that kind of information to someone. Um yeah, this is it's been a journey. We're trying to take the positivity out of it that you know we have been pregnant now, and hopefully next time it'll work. It's just tiring and so it's being a parent, you know, so to get used to that, I suppose. Oh dear, all snuffly because I've been crying. I knew I'd get emotional on that one. Um remember there's people out there to talk to. If you are going through this, talk to people, you know, seek professional advice. This has not been a self-help of IVF trauma and process. Um it's just my story and Sarah's story kind of shared in a jumbled order, probably, in a bratly order. You know, you get what you get what you pay for with this podcast. Um what I would say is if anyone's going through IVF or someone that wants children that can't have them or is trying to have them and struggling, what I would say to them is what I would say to you is don't shy away from talking about children. If you have children, don't think that they wouldn't want to look after them. They probably would die to look after your kids and give you a night off. We meet me and Sarah offer quite a lot for people like we'll look after your kids, we'll do this, we'll do that. And I don't think people think that one, it'll fit into our schedules because we're like single, like you know, parentless not single, but parentless people, and that we wouldn't really want to do that, we would. Um it's an actual privilege to do that. Um, and we're not just saying it, like when people say stuff, generally they're not just saying it to seem kind, especially for that sort of level of um like offer for of help. Um but don't shy away from the subject, talk to people about it, don't be afraid, maybe have some sort of code word for it, maybe you know, be open with people that are going through this because it's shit, and don't also probably don't say, Oh, it'll happen at some point. Just kind of say, it's shit, isn't it? I'm here if you need me. Because that's all we want to hear. We just want to know that if we want to go somewhere and have a bit of a vent or just chat rubbish to someone we can. Um people generally don't want to hear niceties, especially someone about this. We've heard it all before. And that's not mean me being mean, it's just saying, you know, it's almost like, you know, it seems comforting, but it it isn't. Um But yeah, just be there for someone that's going through something. Anything, really. Not just IVF stuff and and baby stuff. Just for anything. Uh be kind. I'm gonna wrap it up there because I've been chunning for 40 minutes. Uh there or thereabouts. Um, thank you for listening to this podcast. Uh sorry it was a sad one. It's something I wanted to share with everyone. Not just because I wanted to get off my chest, but you know, maybe someone will listen to this is going through the same thing and feel comforted by it. And if one person feels that, then happy days. Um I'm gonna record something happy after this podcast, I think. Might record another vlog because I need an uplift, need to finish me brewing and um and and talk about something happier. Um but until next time, like look after yourselves, talk to each other, be nice, be kind, and keep prattling.